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Ingrid
| | Posted on Sunday, September 23, 2001 - 04:56 am: | |
Astrologically, the main ongoing transit of import is the very powerful opposition between Saturn and Pluto.
Saturn represents the status quo, rules and regulations, authority, government, and law and order. In my opinion, it also represents the State of Israel and Jehovah.
Pluto may represent a great transformative force, including those subterranean forces that could explain volcanic eruptions; but it is also, in my opinion and one that is not shared by all astrologers, a usurper of great power, a force that I believe landed in Middle East many thousands of years ago and seized power.
In political matters, you could say that in this day and age, Pluto is the power behind the throne, the hidden forces that determine what will happen. Its energy is best understood by reference to Machiavelli's description of the ideal prince. Paraphrasing since I don't have the book handy, a prince should always appear to be what the people want. This energy has been deluding many in our civilization for countless hundreds of years, if not much longer. Ergo, whenever we look at an event, we need to question whether it is what it appears to be or completely different since a skilled politican will have extraordinary skill in making things appear to be different than they are.
The best way to understand this in a more neutral way would be to look at sports instead of politics. A Plutonian athlete would not compete fairly.This is the athlete who would take steroids to enhance performance and find a way to conceal this breaking of the rules from those whose job it is to uphold the rules: i.e. Pluto opposite Saturn.
Likewise, in the business world, Pluto would be the Madison Avenue lackeys who for money will write one liners, slogans and jingles, that urge people to desires or beliefs they would not otherwise have. That is, when one assesses one's need for a new car or a sexual performance enhancing drug, one may or may not originate this idea on one's own. If the idea is seeded in one's consciousness by an outside force, the motivation of the outside force may or may have one's best interests at heart.
Taking these ideas into the present global crisis and the U.S. horoscope in particular, we have to look at a few factors. First, Pluto is a problem
planet in the U.S. horoscope, drawn for July 4, 1776. The U.S. was born with the signing of the Declaration of Independence, Sun in Cancer and
Pluto, not opposite, in Capricorn. Depending on what you believe the correct time of this signing to be, Pluto may be in the 9th house (foreign countries and religion/philosophy) where it symbolizes our traditional xenophobia and absence of skill in foreign relations. It may also explain our quest for freedom from the tyranny of the Inquisition and the various reformist groups breaking off from Catholism . . . that inspired the Pilgrims and pioneers to seek homes in a distant unknown land.
When one views a situation in which it is difficult to know who is acting out the Pluto and who is acting out the Saturn part of the present
opposition, which has been ongoing now for several months, we have to look at whose behavior is out in the open and who is hiding. We also have to watch who is speaking of law and order and who is speaking one liners because those one liners are a dead giveaway for who is Plutonian and who is Saturnian.
The American people have long been regarded as naive so that those motivated by Pluto, which would include many gigantic corporations as well as hugely ambitious politicians, are often not seen as they are. Moreover, it is typical of Plutonian individuals to deny complicity until the forces of law have exposed the flaws in the denial. When Nixon was losing his grip, G. Gordon Liddy said that Nixon was insufficiently ruthless, not Plutonian enough to hold onto the power. Nixon was a Capricorn, under the influence of Saturn.
When Clinton was caught with his pants down, he denied everything but never lost his grip on the power. This is a fascinating contrast because though both presidents had afflicted Plutos, they exhibited remarkably different skills in handling their Plutonian challenges.
Now, who is George Bush? He has very strong Plutonian energies along with a phenomenal abundance of luck and a great deal of luck on his side for several years to come. This is also the case for the U.S. so while the U.S. has suffered a terrible attack, it is also experiencing a wave of public sympathy and support that is totally unique in our history. I am not going to interpret this, just put it out that there is an enormous struggle going on and it is not over, but Bush and American both have tremendous luck for the near term.
If we go back a few months, when Bush was somewhat less on a roll, he edged his way into the White House by the slimmest of margins and most contorted chains of events in American electoral history. Now, only eight months later, he is enjoying the greatest public support of anyone on the planet. This is astonishing. What I mean is, how does one human being experience such a sudden shift? He isn't a soccer star or rock star or astronaut, just a politician.
I am not suggesting anything by pointing out these factors, just saying that we are experiencing a global struggle of simply enormous magnitude with invisible players and visible ones. Watch who invokes whom and what and assume that in the short run, Pluto will win over Saturn and in the long run, the new alignments that are occurring on Earth will be the end of Pluto's reign of terror, a reign that brought down Egypt and many other civilizations and has nearly destroyed the Garden of Eden and all the feminine religions, institutions, and values of Lady Gaia.
I would also like to suggest that while the vast majority of Americans experience Pluto as "out there" and are hence unable to gauge the extent of Pluto's motivations, there are always those who will exploit this blindness for their own ends. Ergo, when we are "insufficiently suspicious," there will always be someone believing that invisibility will allow him to continue getting away with whatever he is doing. However, the downside of some of these syndromes is that when the U.S. is suddenly forced to look at Pluto and deal with it, the tendency is to go to the opposite extreme. I think we can see this by the way we handled the Japanese after Pearl Harbor. Not only were the Japanese rounded up and put into camps, but we dropped huge bombs on Japan, thereby proving that when pinch comes to shove, we will, in fact, act as badly as our enemies and yet probably not see our own shadow.
I personally believe we are in just such a situation now, playing out old scripts and flexing muscles that are full of lactic acid and unlikely to perform the way we expect.
Blessings,
Ingrid |
Ingrid
| | Posted on Sunday, September 23, 2001 - 05:33 am: | |
My cousin, also an astrologer, phoned me today and said that Osama bin Laden was born March 10, 1957. He is the 17th of 52 children (four wives) and the data is apparently from Interpol. |
vesta
| | Posted on Sunday, September 23, 2001 - 02:41 pm: | |
Was Osama born in Saudi Arabia? Caroline Keenan |
Michael Star
| | Posted on Sunday, September 23, 2001 - 03:02 pm: | |
I heard bin Laden was born in Yemen. |
jd
| | Posted on Sunday, September 23, 2001 - 03:56 pm: | |
Have been working on bin Laden's chart--time unknown, Saudi Arabia, & his Saturn in Sag alone
is telling, as well as Mars conj SN. Tr Mars is
now, of course, conj tr SN. Hmm-m... Sun 19 Pisc/
martyr complex, & guessed at Moon 29 Gem, w/ 29Sag
ASC. Just guessin'! Mars/SN would definitely
step in if he didn't like the way society is going. Anyone? |
Ingrid
| | Posted on Sunday, September 23, 2001 - 05:15 pm: | |
It's the Mars sq. Pluto that begs for interpretation! |
Michael Star
| | Posted on Sunday, September 23, 2001 - 05:31 pm: | |
bin Laden's Transits SEP 11 2001
Just out of curiosity I entered the March 10 1957 birth date for Osama bin Laden into my own astrological interpretation software and produced a Monthly Forecast using a birth time of Noon and a birth place of Ryhad, Saudi Arabia. Since this is a computer program with interpretive text pre-written to apply to the typical North American client, there was quite a bit of stuff that would not likely apply to bin Laden, but I did find some interesting tidbits in the computerized reading that I have extracted and posted here for you to see and think about, and perhaps compare to what your own chart interpretation would say.
This reading only looks at aspects the transiting planets on September 11, 2001 were making to bin Laden's natal horoscope; there are no progressions considered in this particular forecast. I have cut and pasted these items verbatim from the text my computer program produced (it is not one you might have bought from Matrix or Astrolabe, it is software I wrote myself).
Monthly Forecast for Osama bin Laden September 11, 2001
You are passing through a phase in life that tends to give you
an increased awareness of the NEED FOR CO-OPERATION if you
hope to achieve important long term goals & desires. You may
be feeling more CONSERVATIVE in your outlook on career & social
affairs; or tending more towards CONFORMING to social standards.
Likely you act more responsibly (or may have to handle even MORE
responsibilities) in your work or business or political or
marriage relationships. There might be legal difficulties now.
You're in a phase that brings about the ENDING of old experiences & activities & habits and the BEGINNING of some new ones;
especially in career or business or political affairs. Now your willpower is intensified & your ability to focus your efforts increases - but binding commitments & career responsibilities may be a burden now and you may be forced to undergo some heavy discipline or face life-&-death issues. Past acts help or hurt
your reputation. Decisions now have far-reaching consequences.
You act more "behind the scenes".
Stay calm & try to survive this phase with a minimum of DIFFICULTY & DISRUPTION & DANGER! A strong tendency to seek freedom & change is energized now - but may be MISDIRECTED or ERRATIC. Try to AVOID... impulsive acts/ impatience/ temper outbursts/ demanding freedom-at-all-costs/ rebellious or revolutionary attitudes & behaviour/ conflicts with friends or organizations/ conflicts over money/ misuse of occult practices/ starting new projects.
And here is a bit from my "Karmic Gifts and Lessons" reading which I did using bin Laden's same birth data as above (using a Solar Chart for Noon). Note that the paragraphs in PAST tense refers to PAST lives (and maybe this one too).
YOUR nMoon 00Cnc07 H4 SQUARE YOUR rJupi 27Vir50 H7 Orb-2.2
Rather than learning the lesson that emotional security is something gained by giving emotional support and love to others; your past pattern was a blind belief in a personal philosophy - or a religious doctrine - from which you drew A FALSE SENSE OF SECURITY and even a moral smugness. You may have acted sanctimonious or self-righteous or offered an artificial substitute for real emotional support in the form of insincere or inappropriate shows of cheerfulness or optimism - or unsolicited advice or preaching.
YOUR LESSONS in THIS lifetime MAY be to experience SOME of this...
__being quick to judge others' morals but blind to your own sins.
__not learning from failure...then thinking life is unfair to you.
__having poor judgment in taking bad chances or over-extending.
__making promises you can't keep; or not helping as you promised.
__finding it hard to commit yourself emotionally & settle down.
YOUR nMars 25Tau16 H3 trine YOUR rJupi 27Vir50 H7 Orb 2.5
In past experiences you learned the lesson that physical stamina & strength & health are EARNED. By generously giving of your own physical resources for the benefit of others you have built up your store of STRENGTH & STAMINA - for you understood that even when there was no immediate nor obvious reward, what one gives out eventually returns to bless the giver many times over. You may have been an adventurer or explorer; or excelled in sports or outdoor activities offerring tests of physical prowess.
YOUR GIFTS in THIS lifetime COULD be to experience SOME of this...
__being philosophical & good humoured about your failed efforts.
__having good judgment about your own physical strength & stamina.
__knowing when to go for an opportunity & when to go slow & easy.
__having a self-confident outgoing personality that attracts others
__being self-assertive; having initiative & leadership qualities.
__attracting many opportunities to enjoy sports/adventures/travel.
__knowing males (or a Father) who encourage exercise and travel.
YOUR nSun 19Pis31 H1 SQUARE YOUR nSatu 14Sag09 H9 Orb-5.3
During your past experiences you have not yet learned the lessons
of RESPONSIBILITY according to Universal Law; and/or did not
develop steadfastness and perseverance in holding true to the
principles of one's spiritual convictions in spite of pressure
from peers or society or circumstances. You were irresponsible
or lazy - letting others do your duty for you - OR you strived so
much for social acceptance and status and material success that
you stressed yourself unduly and neglected other obligations.
YOUR LESSONS in THIS lifetime MAY be to experience SOME of this...
__having a lack of opportunities for success - or many setbacks.
__depending too much on feedback from others to feel worthy.
__feeling anxiety; which manifests symptoms like chronic ailments.
__feeling inhibited about "being yourself" or developing talents.
__expecting failure and feeling frustrated and giving up trying.
__feeling painfully self-conscious when asked to speak or perform.
__taking on too much and straining yourself until you become ill.
__not knowing (or losing) your own father; or not having children.
YOUR LESSONS in THIS lifetime are to LEARN or EARN some of this...
__recognizing inborn talents early and having time to develop them.
__being able to continue your chosen life work for a long time.
__being given the chance to attain a position of responsibility.
__earning respect from your peers for your dedication & hard work.
__finding fulfillment in your life work regardless of status & pay.
__being able to concentrate on the important goals and reach them.
__enjoying a secure & stable lifestyle for sustained periods.
__having support of male mentors to learn self discipline & duty.
YOUR nMerc 10Pis14 H12 trine YOUR nNept 02Sco15 H8 Orb-7.9
In past experiences your ideas have reflected a high ideal in which COMMUNICATION between all persons - all mankind - becomes an expression of Universal Love and Understanding. Though you were often disappointed when the high expectations you had for others failed to materialize in their response to your inspired spoken words (speeches/sermons/ or acting) or your written words (stories/prose/plays/poems/textbooks/ or essays); you KEPT YOUR IDEALS ALIVE by concentrating on the CREATIVITY not the response.
YOUR GIFTS in THIS lifetime COULD be to experience SOME of this...
__having a creative mind which is original and often "inspired".
__being a clever talker or even an inspired speaker or preacher.
__a talent for writing stories or plays or poetry or song lyrics.
__being able to gain inspiration and insight from meditation.
__being a bit "mystical" and able to know Truth without studying.
__having good hunches; good intuition; E.S.P. or psychic talents.
__having an ability to translate the mystical into the logical.
__having a sincere desire to use your wisdom for the good of all.
YOUR nSun 19Pis31 H1 OPPOSED YOUR rJupi 27Vir50 H7 Orb 8.3
Rather than freely give OF yourself and your creative talents to aid others you have tended to give too much TO yourself. You may have been OVER-CONFIDENT or OSTENTATIOUS in giving yourself
too much credit for your abilities; or you may have been OVERBEARING & OVERZEALOUS in getting attention...thus depriving other people of the opportunity to express themselves. You may have
taken on too much to handle; or made commitments you could not keep; or been boastful or extravagant; or taken foolish risks.
YOUR LESSONS in THIS lifetime MAY be to experience SOME of this...
__an inability to be philosophical about failure and learn from it.
__continually making the same mistakes and whining life's unfair.
__over-estimating your abilities & making promises you can't keep.
__taking on tasks beyond your ability to handle or complete.
__blindly believing every new opportunity will be the big break.
__being restless & not being able to settle in one home or career.
__being prone to extravagant spending & gambling & being in debt.
__dealing with males (or a Father) who have any of the above karma.
YOUR LESSONS in THIS lifetime are to LEARN or EARN some of this...
__being a good judge of your own abilities & talents & chances.
__having a positive philosophical outlook on successes & failures.
__being given opportunities to express yourself and your talents.
__having opportunities to learn & grow by travel or by foreigners.
__bearing children who give you a sense of self-fulfillment.
__having an instinct which knows when to pursue an opportunity.
__having parents or close friends who are good-humored & generous.
__dealing with males (or a Father) who are generous & encouraging.
Osama bin_Laden 10MAR1957 ??:?? PM ST Zn-4 SAUDI ARABIA Ryhad
(c)2001 Michael Star, www.AstrologyZine.com |
Ingrid
| | Posted on Sunday, September 23, 2001 - 07:19 pm: | |
He was supposedly born in Jiddah. I am not going to risk much by way of interpretation because I feel there is a fair chance that the data we have is not necessarily 100% reliable. I don't know how births were recorded, but since he came from a wealthy family, it is reasonable to assume that record keeping occurred.
So many have been looking at bin Laden as the probably mastermind of the attack. It is useful to consider the possibility that his denial may be factual, not suggesting that he was not the wits behind other acts of terrorism, but in trying to understand the man, we need to get inside his psyche.
In this case, we might ask whether he is a fanatic or idealist? Is he misguided, delusional, or visionary? How does his horoscope work with that of his adversaries? |
jd
| | Posted on Sunday, September 23, 2001 - 08:28 pm: | |
yes, he's all of the above,I believe, & as you mentioned, Mars SQ Pluto, which is esp. difficult
w/ Sun, Merc, & Ven SQ Saturn. If I'm repeating, sorry..my last post doesn't seem to be here.
jd |
Nancy
| | Posted on Monday, September 24, 2001 - 05:41 am: | |
Fascinating aspects. However, as Ingrid said, bin Laden may or may not be the actual perpetrator of this attack. |
Ingrid
| | Posted on Monday, September 24, 2001 - 07:08 am: | |
Also, there is another birthdate floating around, July 30, 1957 . . . I prefer that we use this forum to focus on matters that definitely enhance our insights and understanding as well as our capacity to cope and hope! |
Anonymous
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 26, 2001 - 12:45 am: | |
If it wasn't bin laden who instigated the terrorist attacks and innocent lives are lost in acts of war by the American government what other karma will this president be inflicting on the people he says he is protecting. I don't need to look at the president's chart for in the eyes of Bush I see something that is quite sinister!! |
Ingrid
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 26, 2001 - 04:12 am: | |
It takes great courage to look at one's shadow and my experience as a counselor is that the stronger the Pluto, the more capacity there is for probing and the more terror and resistance there is to starting the probe. We must pray that the President claims his Cancer Sun as his own (difficult in the 12th house) and builds a keen sense of his role in history as well as his role as a protector.
I'm certain he picks up a lot from his Neptune, but the issue is his clarity and the overlay of Leo ASC as a leader. A real leader must know exactly where he is leading people.
Ironically, I am a little sympathetic with his karmic position. He has the classic pattern of conflict between church and state and his karmic history has been heavily associated with the church and his soul energy elevates him over others and gives him responsibilities that are inconsistent with his beliefs. We must pray that he rises above conflict and becomes clear enough to assist the creation of a world is safe for everyone. |
Laurie
| | Posted on Thursday, September 27, 2001 - 07:35 pm: | |
As an astrologer I'm a little dismayed at the focusing primarily on the Plutonian/Saturn aspects, which though the obvious mark in the chart of Sept. 11, 2001 are not the only things and clues to consider.
Venus and Mercury play huge roles in this chart...
Having a very strong Plutonian influence in my personal chart, I can speak from experience that Pluto is about Transformation. It can take two routes, destructive force is only one of them.
Please don't make "Pluto" the bad guy in this (smile)... Pluto in Sagitarrius means that our belief structures and religious (and political/legal) must change. This can be violent change or it can be enlightened change.
Since we're dealing with Pluto in Sagi, take a look at Jupiter and it's aspects...Saturn in Gemini means we need to think considerably before speaking and acting, knee jerk reactions will only reap us difficulties.
Mercury plays a very large role with it's placement on the ascendant of the chart...
As much as one can see the difficulties in this chart I for one can see opportunities as well.
Villifying the Middle East is not an option, not one country there is united completely in politics or interpretation of law and religion.
Before interpreting charts for the region one needs more information on the cultures, religious interpretations, and political histories.
As an astrologer I always attempt to take my analysis slowly, and devoid of emotion (not always easy, as on the day of the attacks and I pulled up the chart.)
We knew that the Pluto Saturn opposition was going to show us something, and it did, but what else can be used by that fantastic energetical force? Perhaps we can transform our energetical outlook and facilitate non-brutal change!?
(having a Scorpio Asc, 10th house pluto conj. SN,Uranus/Jupiter sextiling my sun/merc I can tell you there are really great ways to utilise Pluto without causing harm to anyone including one's self...but it does make one a change agent.) |
Ingrid
| | Posted on Sunday, September 30, 2001 - 01:38 am: | |
I can't find it now, but someone asked if George Bush was the reincarnation of someone . . . can't remember the name mentioned. I have been thumbing through charts and felt that the closest parallel to anyone in history that came up was Julius Caesar, but there are at least four different charts for this Roman who initiated calendar reform, obviously after he was born, making the chart even more speculative. |
andrew
| | Posted on Monday, October 08, 2001 - 11:24 am: | |
I'm not sure if this has been mentioned but with a March 10 1957 birthdate Bin Laden's natal Saturn is being transited virtually exactly opposite by Saturn. Therefore, he is at the half Saturn return point. Mix in transiting Pluto is closing on the natal Saturn in Sagittarius and you have the likelihood that this is the correct birth date. |
Heidi
| | Posted on Monday, October 08, 2001 - 04:05 pm: | |
I'm totally with Laurie on this one. An Astrologer here with Pluto just about everywhere in my "story", no need to bore with the details, and feeling that there's so much attention on Osama and Bush, where that's all well and fine, but I live here and am interested in how all this is un-folding if you will for US. Now the chart I chose to use for US puts Sag. on the ASC. (very nice) but can be verbally out of line at times or when still "immature". That places transiting Pluto in our 1st house. I also see Pluto as a time, a chance to be able to "SEE" the truth, and
boy we here in the US have been really working at "exposing" the truths in our own backyard - haven't we? Saturn came along last yr in Taurus and set the stage for really looking at our values, possession, money, and priorities, and Pluto helps to "clean" out the closets if you will, for something NEW. Depending on how much useless crap we've hung on to often sets the stage for the feelings of loss as this crap is now taken from us one way or another. So just how well did US clean out it's "closets"? Not to well. Personally I was still hearing a lot of "crap" going on via just listening and watching D.C. Do I personally "trust" any of them - I think not. Hadn't heard the truth BEFORE the attack coming from them yet.
I find it interesting also, the moon and mars that am. at the time of the atttacks were opposing ea. other, and I kept being called to look at that cancer moon. Was this a planned war from within "home" on the "home etc... And as we've all learned now that a lot these folks were here. Trained here! etc... Looks like Osama probably "foot" the bill and not the brains. Have any of you checked his "possible" (dangerous and un-professional in my eyes when based on "possible" chart) chart? Now in this Mercury retro. it will be interesting to see if any perceptions on ANYTHING will change. I was hoping to see/hear transformation in how we handle this attack politically, and maybe start to mature into finding new ways to handle this situation therefore truely being a "leader". Leading the world into a new era.
Interesting also your perception on Bush. Agreed with many other astrologers that he would see bring about a war in his term. He really been hard at work setting the stage for it since getting into office! I was just waiting for when as were many of us. As for a lucky term? We'll see. With the Jup./Sat. 20 yr. cycle being for this president - well -- history says it all. |
Moderator
| | Posted on Monday, October 08, 2001 - 09:58 pm: | |
Moderator stepping in a bit here. There is ample room for discussion on this forum, but from this day forward, posts that use words such as "crap" to describe complex situations will be edited or deleted. Issues, complaints, opinions, interpretations of charts are welcome, but the discussion must adhere to some level of both clarity and professionalism. |
Ingrid
| | Posted on Monday, October 08, 2001 - 10:02 pm: | |
President Bush has a swift Jupiter transit. He may continue to experience public approval and receive support while this lasts. After that, who knows? Patterns affecting the U.S. horoscope and his own chart are not mutually exclusive. This said, I want to go on record saying that I use the Gemini rising chart for the U.S.
For those who are interested, Tony Blair was born May 6, 1953, at 6:10 am in Edinburgh, Scotland. This gives him a packed 12th house and Mars on the ASC. |
admin
| | Posted on Thursday, October 11, 2001 - 09:50 pm: | |
Letters from India #15:
October 2001
Last July I was invited to go to Maharishi Institute of Management in
Hyderabad to teach the MBA class their Maharishi Vedic Science course.
One of Maharishi's top Jyotish pundits lives in Hyderabad. He is Prof.
S. Subha Rao. He is a very scholarly man and speaks fluent English. I
invited him to come talk to the students about Maharishi Jyotish and
Yagya.
After his talk we opened the floor to questions. We asked, among other
things, what is the near term future for the USA and for India. Subha
Rao quickly ran through a number of items, including that the USA would
get bombed on Sept. 11.
No one took the prediction seriously at the time. How could we? Who
could ever have imagined that the USA would be attacked? Also in
attendance at the talk was one of Maharishi's retired Major Generals.
A few weeks later I was called to Bhopal to teach the graduate students
their MVS course at the Maharishi Centre for Educational Excellence.
After the courses for the students I was asked to remain another week at
the MCEE to teach the generals how to talk about consciousness. Just
before they arrived, the events of Sept. 11 occurred.
The general from Hyderabad was at the orientation course and I asked him
if he remembered the prediction. He did. We were both very impressed
with the accuracy of the date and precision of the description.
One of the Purusha men who teaches MCDP in Hyderabad recently visited
Pundit Subha Rao and got the following predictions from him:
China and India drawing closer together on basis of agriculture.
Russia and India will draw apart -- Putin is a harsh man.
India will loose part of NE Kashmir.
Bangladesh problems for India
Afghanistan will become stable and democratic now.
Pakistan will throw out President Musharif.
The worst of the terrorism is finished for America, some few bombs here
and there still to come. November 29 will see a cluster of these but
none as bad as September 11.
Economy very unstable until 2005 for US, don't invest during this time.
Overall, the worst problems for the world will last until June 23, 2003,
then some more problems till June 2005. Then all will be good for the
world.
In America the Southern Senators will fight the Northern Senators over
funding the fight with Afghanistan.
Note from Administration: this forwarded e-mail was evidently written by Anthony Antimuro. |
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